I haven't watched g5 yet (or paid much attention), so I still don't know whether it's woke or not.

@Soft Lava
You're kinda pathetic, not gonna lie. As a member of both fandoms, I can confidently say:
Furries have WC/veebooru and e621, bronies have poni/derpi/p/pony/twi/alt-boorus.
Furries have… something for stories, bronies have FiMFiction.
Furries have… something for news, bronies have EqD.
Furries have furaffinity/inkbunny/weasyl, bronies have… something.
Furries have fchan, bronies have /mlp/.
Even "this fursona does not exist" and "this pony does not exist" are separate.
Separation line is clearly distinct. Bronies are not furries, and MLP fandom is not a furry fandom.
Speaking of furries, take a close look at commission rules of the most furry/yiff artists. You'll clearly see "No MLP". They'll draw anything and everything, except MLP. Even if furry artist would draw MLP pic, it will be with million assurances in description that "this is the first and last time I draw ponies, no need to worry, fellow furries!".
So far I only talked about fans and fandoms. What about characters? Are they furry characters? It's up to furries themselves, and does not affect anything outside of furry fandom. "HA! Twilight Sparkle is a furry character!" argument does not really work outside of furry fandom, it works only inside.

@Soft Lava
Ponies came from fim, not furries. That is an important distinction to make.

pony is not furry. it takes action and accepting of the name to join a fandom. furries try to colonize anything slightly anthropomorphized by claiming it's inherently furry, regardless of context or actual history/desires of the group. with ponies it's worse, because they're not satisfied with calling ponies furry; they have to recreate pony in their image. this is how we get >no hooves.

There's two meanings now to the term anthro. One is the word "anthropomorphized", which at it's core means anything that isn't a human, but which does intelligent things. Then there's "anthro" as used around these discussions, which means a character which was changed from it's normal form into a human-ish body as well. This is what furries can't help doing, butchering the perfect pony form into an abomination that has very little left of the pleasing design of pure pony. If pony was a subset of furry, then why would they need to draw all this anthro, semi-anthro, and humanized?

the argument seems to be that ponies are furries because furry is literally anything anthropomorphized. this is absurd; there are people who create anthropomorphized characters who are not part of the furry fandom or culture. there are major studios who release anthropomorphized cartoons or movies. those shows are not inherently furry, and neither are the majority of viewers. there is a subset of viewers who are furry and who change the content of the show to their furry image.

for example, Ice Age is not furry at all, despite being anthropomorphized characters. there are, however, furry artists who draw r34 of it. that doesn't make the movie or the rest of its fans into furries. Cars isn't furry. The good dinosaur isn't furry.

to be an furry you'd have to claim to be one and/or interact with other furries, participating in furry content. pony content is pony content. anthro might be defined as inherently furry, but again, you can't force someone to be in a fandom.

I wish there were a definitive answer to why bronies do not originate from furries (by a first definition). But I guess in our changing times, when the world "rape" is used to put men in jail whenever the woman finds it fit to call it so (consent theory), this is sadly an impossible task. Meanings of words inevitably twist and change and the "furry" is not an exception. We can only take sides. So I chose to side with the former. Brony and furry fandoms, while having simularities, can never be called the same thing, nor they ever should.

I rest my case.

@Background Pony #F66B
That's a good point. Yes, ponies are furry work by definition. And yes. Ponies originate from 4chan, not furaffinity.
But where do fandoms originate from exactly? Which factors are playing the essential part in fandom's creation? Is it a place? Is it common interests? Or is it both? I am sure you've noticed there is a great divide in our community between derpibooru bronies and other bronies. In that sense, there should be two fandoms since our world views and personality traits differ so much that it often leads to violent and hostile experiences. And yet we don't go as far as labeling each of two groups any different than a brony.

You see, the real problem lies in a bias targeted at the core demographic of the furry community, not the fandom itself. Let's be real here. We don't hate the furry fandom. We hate people in this fandom, their language, their culture. Those are different things. I don't consider myself being a furry but I can't deny that obsessing over a furry animal sexually is something a furry would do. I don't engage in sexual relationships with animals in real life like Kiro the wolf and I don't wear animal fursuits since I find it degrading and less of a human, but I do find appeal and comfort in fantasizing about busty animal thighs in tight sweaty panties. That still raises the question of my integrity as an individual. Is it true that furries and ponies differ mainly because of their representative archetypes? Is furry considered a brony if he/she draws mlp oriented fan art? If not, what is considered an explicit furry interfierence and how it can be stopped?

Let's asume the unthinkable happends. Furries begin raiding our fandom in large amounts. How would you then distinguish who is who?


Also…

The word yiff makes me want to shoot myself but the word clop for some reason does not.
The "uwu" phenomenon gives me an urge to vomit but "/)" however does not.

Why?

@Soft Lava

All I am saying is that ponies came from furries and then established themselves as a separate fandom.

Problem is what you define furries as my fren. I don't want to twist it but their is a split between arguing something is categorically a furry thing and that furry is a explicit fandom.

Definition 1: All things animal with human personalities/characterises are furry. This includes stuff like Disney and Loony Toons. I don't mind that definition but I sure wouldn't call some 60 year old collector of Mickey Mouse memorabilia a furry or ever kid who watched house of mouse back in the day!

Definition 2: Furry is a specific subset of people who arose from the `1970s, 80s, 90s who have a specific cultural association. Naturally this is what the furry fandom is organically but a lot of people, furries and non furries alike play with the borders for their own interests. With furries using the first definition in an interest to normalize themselves as much as possible with a second group of adjutant fandoms and ashamed individuals within the furry fandom trying to avoid the label.

I think that the Pony fandom is in a gray area. A lot of the folks who were involved in pony had never been in any fandom before and the ones who had been, even the furry fandom, often fully converted to pony for awhile. Thus, you have a fandom that developed its own styles, memes, terminology for stuff, etc. Though with significant overlap with the furry fandom. Pony is a furry work under definition 1, but I don't think I can accept "Bronies are not furries but they originate from furries." I will say this, if pony had not be born on 4chan and as a meme, we would be furries, because we wouldn't have had some furry stigma in our blood and be spammed everywhere to the point of having to build our own institutions and communities.

@Background Pony #E9BF
Stating something does not count for debunking what I've just said. I've given the argument of why ponies inherit furry subculture and the only way to beat it is to provide a counter argument in responce. I am not saying those fandoms are the same and I do not encourage a merger between the two. All I am saying is that ponies came from furries and then established themselves as a separate fandom.

I understand the hostility behind accepting my hypothesis. By your logic, it gives furries a right to invade us like we are their property (I withdraw my previous statement). That is not the case, however. Simular to how America was founded by british people seeking for independence, Bronies is the community that stands on its own hooves, not paws. You can't call america a british colony because they have separated from it. So did we. We separated from furries and became our own thing.

Bronies are not furries but they originate from furries.

@wren
Psst! Hey! Can you tell Lotus to ban me for inciting herecy? It would be funny. I mean, can I get one of those bans that lasts a day or two? I also have a physics exam tommorow so it'll help me to be less distracted. See, I'm a troublemaker 'round here. I need discipline, Wren. I've been a very naughty boy and I need to be punished for my wrongthink.

@Soft Lava
You can like ponies but hate everything that is furry with a burning passion rivaling that of the adepta sororitas's hatred for heretics. They may have similarities, but they are not the same, nor is one a subset of the other. Even amonng cloppers this is true, as not all cloppers like ponies(they may stick to humanized art, which alone is a sufficient argument).

also "strong fandom" "family with faith" Lolwut? The fandom shreds itself nearly every other year or two.

@Soft Lava
dont be that guy

@Soft Lava
Never have, never will be.

@AA
These two fandoms don't overlap. It's more of a "one contain another" situation. Like yolk in an egg. All prejudice aside, furry fandom is a subculture interested in animal characters with human personalities and characteristics. Brony fandom fits that category without a doubt, thus falling into said category. Not separating from it.

Sadly you can't win this argument without twisting the definition of what a furry is. I know damn well how humiliating it is to defend those who deserve to be shot, but through truth we seek salvation, my friend.

Furries and bronies are not the same. But there is a co-dependency in terms of what is a root of all things and what is a branch. Kung fu panda is a branch. Zootopia is a branch. Mlp is a branch.

@Soft Lava
Heard that argument before. Main difference:
Bronies/horsefuckers like MLP because FiM was well-made with captivating characters in themselves; the appeal of the equine form developed as a result. Furries aren't tied to any story or franchise and just find animals (not just horses) hot. There's overlap but they're not the same.

@AA
Hate to be that guy, but ponies are furry and that makes them technically a furry property.

Only thing wrong about this comic is that it's furries who are invading and taking over, not the other way around.